During the December 13 edition ofMSNBC's Tucker, guest host NorahO'Donnell highlighted an exchange from the December 13 edition of MSNBC'sHardball in which host ChrisMatthews interviewed Sen. Barack Obama's (D-IL) chief strategist, David Axelrod, Sen. HillaryRodham Clinton's (D-NY) chief strategist, Mark Penn, and adviser to former Sen. JohnEdwards (D-NC) Joe Trippi. Matthews and his guests discussedcontroversial remarks about Obama's past drug use made by William Shaheen, a Clinton campaign co-chair whosubsequently resigned. O'Donnell asserted that Penn "once againbrought up cocaine -- twice" and later claimed that Penn "on hisown brought up cocaine." In fact, contrary to O'Donnell'sassertion that Penn "on his own brought up cocaine," the entire Hardball segment was devoted to thecontroversy over Shaheen's comments. Matthews explicitly asked Penn at leastthree distinct questions about the topic, and Penn had offered at least twospecific responses before he used the word "cocaine." Moreover, the videoclip of the Hardball exchangeaired on Tucker did not includeany of Matthews' questions and began with Penn's third distinct answer, thefirst in which he mentioned "cocaine."
Talking Points Memo blogger-reporter Greg Sargent made these same points in responseto an article by New York Times reporter Katharine Q.Seelye, which contained the following sentence: "They argued with one another, and it was therethat Mr. Penn dropped the word 'cocaine,' saying that the Clinton campaign hadnot raised the issue of 'cocaine use.' " Sargent wrote:
It's hard to overstate how recklessthis representation of the facts is. Seelye simply tells you that the advisers"argued" without saying what they argued about -- and then says Penn dropped the"cocaine" word, suggesting he brought up the drug question out of nowhere.
But if you watch the actualexchange, which is posted over at Taylor Marsh's site,you see that virtually the entiresegment was about the drug flap, and that they'd been talking aboutthe drug thing for literallyminutes before Penn said "cocaine." Even if you want to readsomething into Penn using the word "cocaine," rather than "drug," failing totell readers that this whole conversation was about the drug flap is a blatantmisrepresentation of what happened. And no, slugging this a "news analysis"doesn't make it okay -- this is a factual misrepresentation, and it is the keypiece of evidence offered to support the entire speculative premise of thepiece, i.e., that the Hillarycamp wants to keep this alive.
Matthews first asked Penn,"Mark, given the fact that this hasreached into the spin room today and there were several questions to DavidAxelrod about whether his candidate, Senator Obama, has in fact shared or solddrugs, do you expect the Republicans to use this against the Democrats, nomatter who wins the election -- the nomination fight, I should say?" Pennreplied, "Oh, I don'tknow," before going on to say: "I'm really disappointed. I think this thing withBilly Shaheen, he's stepped down. It was never a part of this campaign. It wasunacceptable."
Matthews then asked Penn, "Did youtell him to step down? Did you tell him to step down? It took 24 hours for himto do it. Do you think he did it in time to stop this from becoming a story?"Penn replied: "I think this story is over. I think we made it very clearyesterday that we didn't condone it. We weren't part of these -- of the storythat he went on with. And we absolutely apologized. And the senator went on thetarmac of the airport as we were all coming down to this debate and apologizedpersonally, because this is not part of hercampaign."
Matthews continued, asking Penn:"These comments that are coming out of your campaign from different directions-- and I'm not sure how they're coming, and nobody does -- but going after hisperhaps youthful drug use, which he admitted in his book, and going aftercomments he made as a student and as a kindergarten student in fifth -- at theage of 5, I should say, do you think those are appropriate shots at theopponent, or are they below the belt?" It was in response to this third questionthat Penn said: "Well, I think we've made clear that the issue related to cocaine use is not something that the campaign was in any wayraising, and I think that's been made clear." In total, Penn answered questions from Matthewsand spoke for 1 minute and 43 seconds from the time heresponded to Matthews'first question until he said the word"cocaine."
Matthews began the segment withAxelrod, Penn, and Trippi by asking Axelrod, "[A]re you satisfied with theexplanation from the Hillary Clinton campaign that the comment by Mr. Shaheenabout drug use by your candidate was not something coming from thetop?"
Fromthe December 13 edition of MSNBC's Tucker:
O'DONNELL: But this was a big issueon Hardball tonight. And Mark Penn, who is Senator Clinton's chiefstrategist, was on Hardball, andhe once again brought up cocaine -- twice. Take alisten.
[begin video clip]
PENN: Well, I think we've made clearthat the issue related to cocaine use is not somethingthat the campaign was in any way raising, and I think that's been madeclear.
I think this kindergarten thing wasa joke after Senator --
TRIPPI: I think he just did itagain. He just did it again.
PENN: This kindergarten thing, afterwhat the senator did --
TRIPPI: Unbelievable. They justliterally --
[crosstalk]
PENN: Excuseme.
TRIPPI: No, no. No, no, Mark, excuseme.
PENN: Excuse me. Excuseme
TRIPPI: This guy's beenfilibustering on this. He just said "cocaine" again. It'slike --
PENN: I think you're saying "cocaine."
TRIPPI: No,no.
PENN: I don't know.I think you're saying "cocaine."
[crosstalk]
TRIPPI: You just didit.
PENN: I don't knowwhy you're saying it.
[crosstalk]
MATTHEWS: OK, Joe Trippi's turn.
[end videoclip]
O'DONNELL: That, of course, is BillTrippi who is with -- Joe Trippi, rather --
BILL PRESS (nationally syndicatedradio host) : Joe Trippi, right.
O'DONNELL: -- who is with theEdwards campaign, and Axelrod, who is with the Obama campaign. But Mark Penn, the chief strategist, on his ownbrought up cocaine. What does that tell you, Bill?
From the 5 p.m. ET hour of theDecember 13 edition of MSNBC's Hardball:
MATTHEWS: Let me ask you, David Axelrod, are you satisfied withthe explanation from the Hillary Clinton campaign that the comment by Mr.Shaheen about drug use by your candidate was not something coming from thetop?
AXELROD: Look, I have no way ofknowing that. They say that, and we have to accept them at their word. I'll saythis, Chris. When you, when you launch a negative attack and you say that thisis the fun part of the campaign, you send a signal down the line to others inthe campaign that leads to this kind of thing.
And so whether or not there was aninstruction to Mr. Shaheen, I think it's important that a signal get sent rightfrom the top of the campaign that this isn't encouraged, that it's not the funpart of the campaign, that we ought to be lifting up this country instead oftrying to tear each other down.
MATTHEWS: Are you serving notice byyour comment right now and your comment in the spin room that any furthernegative attack or suggestion by one of the Clinton people will come fromHillary?
AXELROD: Well, I -- I'm notsuggesting that, Chris. But I will say this. Unless there's a strong, consistentsignal from the top, unless we refrain from saying things like, "Negativecampaigning is the fun part of the campaign," you're going to have thathappening. There's sort of -- it's sort of a wink-and-a-nod thing. Everybodydown the line says, "Oh, well, this is what this isabout."
So, I would think that it would beimportant for all the candidates to send a strong signal to their troops thatthis isn't where we're going go with this campaign. We're not going take it intothe gutter.
MATTHEWS: Mark, given the fact that this has reached into thespin room today and there were several questions to David Axelrod about whetherhis candidate, Senator Obama, has in fact shared or sold drugs, do you expectthe Republicans to use this against the Democrats, no matter who wins theelection -- the nomination fight, I shouldsay?
PENN: Oh, I don't know. I think, though, I'm verydisappointed by David's comments. I mean, you know, he's trying to rewritehistory here. It is his candidate, Senator Barack Obama, on the front page ofThe New York Times that calledSenator Clinton disingenuous.
He started a wave of direct,personal negative attacks. And the senator finally began to reply verysubstantively that his plan leaves out 15 million people, whereas hers coversevery single person. And he kept bringing up an Iranvote that he, in fact, skipped.
So, I'm reallydisappointed. I think this thing with Billy Shaheen, he's stepped down. It wasnever a part of this campaign. It wasunacceptable.
MATTHEWS: Did you tell him to stepdown?
PENN: The senator made thatclear.
No, he stepped down. And he madeclear --
MATTHEWS: Did you tell him to step down? It took 24 hours forhim to do it.
Do you think hedid it in time --
PENN: No.No.
MATTHEWS: -- to stop this from becoming astory?
PENN: I think this story is over. I think we made it veryclear yesterday that we didn't condone it. We weren't part of these -- of thestory that he went on with.
And we absolutelyapologized. And the senator went on the tarmac of the airport as we were allcoming down to this debate and apologized personally, because this is not partof her campaign.
MATTHEWS:Right.
PENN: And I think it's veryimportant. She has been running a year-long positive campaign in which she's outthere talking about ending the Iraq war and health care forall.
MATTHEWS: These comments that are coming out of your campaignfrom different directions -- and I'm not sure how they're coming, and nobodydoes -- but going after his perhaps youthful drug use, which he admitted in hisbook, and going after comments he made as a student and as a kindergartenstudent in fifth -- at the age of 5, I should say, do you think those areappropriate shots at the opponent, or are they below thebelt?
PENN: Well, I think we've made clear that the issue relatedto cocaine use is not something that the campaign was inany way raising, and I think that's been madeclear.
I think this kindergarten thing wasa joke after Senator --
TRIPPI: I think he just did itagain. He just did it again.
PENN: This kindergarten thing, afterwhat the senator did --
TRIPPI: Unbelievable. They justliterally --
[crosstalk]
PENN: Excuseme.
TRIPPI: No, no. No, no, Mark, excuseme.
PENN: Excuse me. Excuseme
TRIPPI: This guy's beenfilibustering on this. He just said "cocaine" again. It'slike --
PENN: I think you're saying "cocaine."
TRIPPI: No,no.
PENN: I don't know.I think you're saying "cocaine."
[crosstalk]
TRIPPI: You just didit.
PENN: I don't knowwhy you're saying it.
[crosstalk]
MATTHEWS: OK, Joe Trippi'sturn.
[crosstalk]
TRIPPI:No.
MATTHEWS: Joe Trippi's turn.
